Lizzy: How old were you when you came to the US?


Jesus: Eight years old.


Lizzy: Where did you grow up in Mexico?


Jesus: Here, in the city.


Lizzy: In Mexico City?


Jesus: Yeah.


Lizzy: Do you have a favorite memory from your childhood, or even a worst
memory from your childhood in Mexico?


Jesus: Playing in the arcades. I was a little kid, so I don't really have
that much memories.


Lizzy: Playing in the arcades?


Jesus: Yeah. [Chuckles].


Lizzy: Why did you end up leaving Mexico?


Jesus: I didn't even know. It was just my mom told me to pack my things up
and I was like, "Alright." So, I just packed all my toys—I was a little
kid. Then we headed for the airport. That took us to TJ. Then from there,
they crossed us over.


Lizzy: Did you drive across the border or walk across?


Jesus: Well, they separated me and my mom. When we got to TJ, they were
like, "Your mom's going to go another place, and you're going to come with
the guy that I was going to cross with, whatever.” So, I went with him in
his truck and we just crossed like nothing, no border.


Lizzy: What did you think about it at the time? I know you were young, but
do you remember—


Jesus: I wasn't really scared. But everything was different, I didn't know
what the hell was going on. But I wasn't scared, I was just curious. I'm
like, “What's going on? What the hell are we doing?”


Lizzy: Do you remember, what did you think about the U.S.? Do you have a
memory of your first time seeing it or that first day?


Jesus: I remember when we barely came through the border, we stopped at a
gas station, and the guy bought me a drink and a Snickers. It was like a
SoBe, and I remember that drink really a lot because after that I would
always drink it. It's one of my favorites. [Chuckles].


Lizzy: So, it's been your favorite since day one?


Jesus: Yeah. I remember that, and then I remember going on the highway, and
just seeing everything and everything looked super nice and stuff.
[Chuckles].


Lizzy: Then where did you live when you first got to the US?


Jesus: Los Angeles.


Lizzy: Okay. What part of LA?


Jesus: By LAX, actually.


Jesus: It was super close. I could skate to the beach.


Lizzy: I love that part of LA.


Jesus: Yeah, it's really nice. Super beautiful, everything, the beaches. I
would even skate from Manhattan all the way to Santa Monica.


Lizzy: Wow.


Jesus: Yeah, I'd go back and forth and stuff, Palos Verdes.


Lizzy: So, you really got into that California skate culture?


Jesus: Yeah. With my friends, they knew how to skate, and I was like,
“Whoa, that looks cool.” [Chuckles]. I want to do it.” So, I started
skating. It's a good form of transportation too, can get anywhere with it.
[Chuckles].


Lizzy: Do you remember what your first day of school was like in the US?


Jesus: Yeah. It was like, “I don't know what the hell is going on.”
[Chuckles]. Literally, I just got in there and they were talking in
English, and I was like, “Okay, I don't know what the hell you're saying.”


Lizzy: Yeah. You probably didn't know any English, right?


Jesus: No, I didn't. Exactly. I was just confused. I don't know what to do.
Yeah. But I had a teacher that spoke Spanish. I remember she told me once,
"I'm going to help you out for a little bit. Hablar español e inglés." I
was like, “Oh, that's cool.” But I remember one day, I think she got
frustrated or something, and she's like, "I'm not going to talk to you in
Spanish anymore. This is the last day I'm talking to you in Spanish. That's
it."


Lizzy: Oh, wow. Was that scary, to have her Spanish taken away?


Jesus: I was just like, “Damn. I don't know what I'm going to do now.” So,
I just had to learn English, and I did.


Lizzy: Do you think that that helped you learn more or made it worse?


Jesus: I think it did, I think it did help me, because if she would've just
been speaking Spanish, I would've just continued, so I wouldn't have
learned as much.


Lizzy: Yeah, then you were forced to speak English?


Jesus: Yeah, it was practical, you have to do it. So, I was like, “All
right,” so I did it.


Lizzy: So, do you have any memories of what the other kids were like? How
did the other kids treat you when you arrived?


Jesus: When I barely got there, in school, I was just a loner. I talked to
nobody because I didn't know how to talk to anybody. [Chuckles]. So, I was
just a loner. Then I had some neighbors that kind of knew Spanish, so I
would hang out with them. It's all right. I didn't get no bullying or
nothing.


Lizzy: Then, what about high school? What was high school like?


Jesus: It was interesting. It was really fun. [Laughs]. I had a bunch of
friends. I had all kinds of friends. I had the rocker friends, the emo
friends, the gang bangers, everybody like that.


Lizzy: Were there a lot of gangs at your school or in your neighborhood?


Jesus: I think my school mostly. My neighborhood, I didn't really see it
because it was suburbs—it was sort of the suburbs. It was like, this side
is all calm, and then from the other side, passing Lennox and stuff, that's
where all the gangs were at. I got saved from that.


Lizzy: Was it something that any of your friends ever got involved with?


Jesus: Yeah, like I said, I had friends from everybody. I didn't
discriminate. Everybody, whoever was cool to me, I was going to be cool
with. So, I had all kinds of preppy friends. I had all kinds of friends. I
had friends that were in gangs, but that didn't make me want to go in there
and get involved in all that.


Lizzy: Did they ever try to get you to join?


Jesus: Yeah, they were like, “You want to join this, you want to join my
gang?” I was like, “No, I don't want to.” [Chuckles].


Lizzy: Why didn't you want to?


Jesus: Because I honestly thought it was stupid. Fuck, you guys are killing
each other for some dumb shit. I didn't want to be part of that.
[Chuckles].


Lizzy: Did any of your friends talk about why they did want to join?


Jesus: I guess to get support or whatever from their other homies. I think
it was mostly peer pressure for them. That's why they got involved. But for
me, I was just like, “Man, I don't want to be part of that.” Stayed away
from that.


Lizzy: Then, let's skip ahead a little bit. If you could tell me about what
led to you leaving the US, coming back to Mexico. How old were you?


Jesus: I was twenty-three, about to be twenty-four.


Lizzy: How old are you now?


Jesus: Twenty-seven.


Lizzy: Okay, so a few years ago.


Jesus: Yeah.


Lizzy: What happened?


Jesus: Well, I was getting in trouble with the law, not really because I
wanted to, but because I didn't have papers. I bought a car and stuff, and
I would drive, and they would pull me over, and I wouldn't have a driver's
license or insurance or none of that. So, I'd get a ticket, they'd get my
car taken away, stuff like that.


Lizzy: So different things related to driving?


Jesus: Yeah, it was mostly driving. They would pull me over a lot for that.
Sometimes they'll let me go. I'd be like, “That's really cool,” because I
would just use the car to go to work and come back. I would even be dressed
and everything and tell them, "I'm just getting off work, just trying to
get home. I ain't doing nothing bad," and they'd be like, "All right, we'll
let you go this one time," or whatever.


Lizzy: So sometimes they let you go, but sometimes it was a bigger deal?


Jesus: Yeah, sometimes it'd be like, “No, can't do it.” I was like,
“Whatever. Give me my fine and take my car away.” Then all those tickets,
and all that with the law, when the DREAM Act came out, I wasn't able to
apply because of that, because I had a criminal record.


Lizzy: Criminal record, but just based on traffic violations?


Jesus: Traffic violations, mostly.


Lizzy: So, you did look into applying for DACA?


Jesus: Yeah, but I wasn't able to. I was like, “I can't even do that so
...”


Lizzy: That's really frustrating.


Jesus: Yeah. Then I didn't see a future for myself over there because of
all of that, and I didn't have paperwork. I did have a good job; I was
getting paid good. But even that was unsure because I was kind of not doing
it legally. [Chuckles]. So, everything, my life was unsure at that point. I
had my own house, I was paying rent, all of that. Even so, I didn't see a
future, because I was like, “When am I going to get a house by myself, all
this mortgage and loans and debt? I don't have paperwork. I don't have a
secure job and all that shit. I'm not going to make it here. Even if I
wanted to, it's going to be super hard. It's going to be double the time
and I have to pay lawyers, whatever.” So, I was like, “I'll head over to
Mexico.” Plus, I have land here.


Lizzy: You have your own land, or your family's land?


Jesus: Yeah, my parents' inheritance.


Lizzy: Where's the land?


Jesus: It's some town over there by the hills. It's really nice, actually,
I went to go scope it out to build. You can see the whole city and
everything. It's in the hills and stuff.


Lizzy: But you don't live there now?


Jesus: I'm building.


Lizzy: So, you're building a house?


Jesus: I have two lands. One at the bottom, and then there's one all the
way at the top of the hill. At the bottom one, I'm already building. I'm
going to build some apartments and whatnot. Then that is already in
process, and I'm living there. Then I'm going to build another house on the
top. So, it's much easier. Right here, I already have a house, I already
have land where I can build a house.


Lizzy: So, are you glad you came back?


Jesus: Well, it's still strenuous living here, because they don't pay you
that good. I got this job right here which is bilingual, Teletech.


Lizzy: Yeah, Teletech.


Jesus: Yeah, so they're paying all right. Seven thousand every two weeks.
Here in Mexico, it's good, because even teachers don't even get paid like
that.


Lizzy: Yeah. Do you like working there?


Jesus: It's all right. I have to deal with everybody in the States, their
dish. “That's not my box!”


Lizzy: Do you get angry customers?


Jesus: Yeah. [Chuckles]. A lot of angry customers.


Lizzy: Is it stressful?


Jesus: It gets stressful because I have to do ten hour shifts, so I have to
be there sitting down all day on the phone. That's what stresses me out the
most. But talking to the people is nice. Sometimes I get people that are
super nice, and I start talking to them. We end up talking about beef stew
or deer stew or random stuff.


Lizzy: How does the conversation turn to beef stew? [Lizzy laughs]


Jesus: There's, really, like deer stew, because I was talking to this
hunter, and—where was he from? I think he was from Arkansas or something.
We were talking about his dish, and then out of nowhere, we just started
talking about life. He's like, "You ever tried deer stew?" I was like,
"No." He's like, "It's the best." [Chuckles]. I don't know, just random
stuff, just started talking.


Lizzy: Do you like getting to talk to people back in the US, or does it
make you miss it?


Jesus: It makes me miss it somewhat because it was really nice. Life over
there is super nice. You can't compare to living here. Everything's fucked
up over here unfortunately. [Laughs]. It's a super nice country. Everything
is beautiful, but everything is corrupt, and cops are assholes, people
sometimes are assholes. There's a lot of drugs, a lot of violence.


Lizzy: Have any cartels or drugs tried to approach you, or have you had any
experiences with them since you've been back?


Jesus: The thing about the cartels is they're not really here in the city.
They're mostly more south or more up north, because right here is where
it's more controlled actually. That's what I'm learning. Right here in the
city, it's mostly controlled, so the cartels don't come in here that much.
Or if they do, it's low key. You don't really know about them.


Lizzy: So that's not something you've had to deal with?


Jesus: Nah. I had to deal with the casual guy that doesn't have nothing
else to do but rob, steal.


Lizzy: Have you gotten robbed?


Jesus: They tried, but they didn't succeed. [Laughs].


Lizzy: Good job.


Jesus: Yeah.


Lizzy: What's been the hardest part about being back in Mexico the past few
years?


Jesus: Mostly, I guess, getting used to the lifestyle.


Lizzy: In what ways is the lifestyle different here from the US?


Jesus: Well, what I miss the most is the food. It's super multicultural
over there, you can get all kinds of food from every single place in the
world practically. You get Asian, you get Arab, anything you want, you can
get it, and everything tastes good. Right here, it's all the same food. And
it’s like, “Ugh.”


Lizzy: What food do you miss the most?


Jesus: What I would cook. [Laughs]. Yeah, because you would have all the
ingredients at the palm of your hands. Here, you can't even get pepper.
They only get crushed or in little balls.


Lizzy: So, it's harder to find the stuff you need for cooking?


Jesus: Yeah. It's just all the same stuff. Chicken. They don't even have
different kinds of cuts of meats, stuff like that. Everything's super
expensive.


Lizzy: More expensive to buy at the markets here?


Jesus: Yeah. For something I would want to eat, I would have to pay at
least a thousand, two thousand pesos. It's a lot because here I have to pay
a bunch of other shit.


Lizzy: I'm wondering, it sounds like the majority of your life was in the
US?


Jesus: Yeah.


Lizzy: And I've heard some people say that they don't really feel like
they're from here, they don't really feel like they're from there either.
Do you feel like that at all, or do you feel more Mexican or more American?


Jesus: I feel more like a human being from Earth. [Chuckles]. I'm not
really even from any country in particular. I could be Japanese for all I
know. It's just culture. It depends on what culture. But I like Mexican
culture, it's super nice. Everybody says “Hello,” “Good morning,” “Good
afternoon,” when you come out of the house. That's really nice. Over there
in the States, I wouldn't see that. So, there's big differences, there's
differences in lifestyles. They both have their good and their bad. Just
human, you know?


Lizzy: I love that, I love that you said that. We're all humans. Yeah. Why
do we need to divide it?


Jesus: Yeah, I always thought about that. There shouldn't be a division in
the world. Everybody can learn from everybody else. Like you're doing now,
you can learn from me as I can learn from you. What's the difference? It's
just the barriers we place on each other.


Lizzy: Yeah. What do you wish that people in the US could learn from people
who've been in your situation, migrants from Mexico?


Jesus: Well, take the good from everything, to learn from everything you're
doing and try to do the best for yourself, instead of trying to live for
“Oh, this guy's telling me to do this. I'm going to have to do this.” No,
it's none of that. You have to do things that you want, that you love, for
your own self. Then that way, once you start loving yourself and the things
you do, then you can go ahead and do things for other people, help someone
without having to ask for anything in return. Just doing it because you
like it.


Lizzy: Yeah, all of us helping each other out.


Jesus: I mean, it's a dream, but ... [Chuckles].


Lizzy: But it's a good dream. What about here in Mexico? Is there something
that you wish people understood about migrants like you that have lived in
the US and have come back to Mexico?


Jesus: Well, to think things differently. To have a different approach on
things because over there, it's more liberal in the States. They reserve
some things, but if you ask them for help, they might be more willing to
help you than here, because everybody here is super sketchy: "I don't know
if you're going to rob me, I don't know if you're going to do this.” If I
go out and I ask somebody, "Can I borrow five bucks just to get home?"
They're not going to want to do it because they think I'm just going to go
and get high or whatever. A lot of people judge me, even here. They think
I'm bad or something. I don't know why. Last time I got kicked out of a
store, I went to go buy bread and whatever. I was in the store, and this
guy got super crazy. He's like, "No, you're going to rob me." He pulled out
a knife and he's like, "You're going to rob me, you're going to rob me." I
was like, "What the hell, dude? I'm just trying to buy bread." [Chuckles].


Lizzy: What is it that you think ... Because I, looking at you, you don't
look like a dangerous person to me.


Jesus: I was even dressed more nice than now. I had on a dress shirt and
pants. I had just came from an interview, and they—


Lizzy: So why do you think that people…?


Jesus: I don't know. I think it's just their lives. They've probably been
robbed too many times, or they just don't trust nobody. It's hard to trust
people around here.


Lizzy: Do people treat you differently, or have you ever been treated
differently because you speak English, or because you've spent so much time
in the States?


Jesus: Not really. The people I do tell, they're just interested in like,
“Oh, how was it? What can you teach me? You want to teach me how to speak
English?”


Lizzy: That's great.


Jesus: I have taught some people how to speak English.


Lizzy: That's really cool. Was your Spanish still good when you returned
here, or had you lost some of it?


Jesus: It's the basic because I don't really know how to write it.


Lizzy: Yeah, because you learned to write in school writing in English.


Jesus: Yeah. So, I don't know how to pronounce it sometimes, I don't know a
few words. You could be telling me something, I don't even know what the
hell you're talking about. Yeah. It's different. [Chuckle].


Lizzy: Yeah. So, you talked a little bit about your land and building
apartments. I guess to finish up and end on a positive note too, what are
your plans for your future here? Or what are your biggest hopes and dreams
for yourself in Mexico?


Jesus: It would be that. Just finishing the building, the apartments, and
my house. Then I want to travel. I want to leave. I want to go and just
visit a lot of places.


Lizzy: Where do you want to visit?


Jesus: Well, I want to visit here in Mexico first because I heard there's a
lot of nice beaches and a lot of super nice places to go to. The forest and
pyramids and stuff. I've been to a few, but I want to go to a lot more.
Then after that, I want to go to Canada, so I could study. I want to be a
pilot.


Lizzy: Cool. So, you want to go to school for that in Canada?


Jesus: Yeah, because out here, it's super expensive. It's like two million
pesos.


Lizzy: Oh, wow.


Jesus: Yeah. I don't think I can make it. [Chuckles].


Lizzy: Is that something you're planning on doing soon, or when do you
think you'll try to do that?


Jesus: Well, it has to be soon, because I'm getting older. [Both laugh].


Lizzy: Is there an age limit on being a pilot?


Jesus: Probably, but I want to be more like a personal pilot, so I could
have my own plane and fly wherever I want.


Lizzy: Yeah, not so much flying the big commercial airline?


Jesus: That would be nice, too. Boeing and stuff. That'd be super dope. But
it would be more for private, a private thing. I could just have my plane
and fly wherever. After that, I'm going to go to Greece.


Lizzy: I would love to go to Greece.


Jesus: Yeah, Greece sounds super nice.


Lizzy: It looks beautiful.


Jesus: Yeah. All the stories, too. The gods and stuff.


Lizzy: Yeah.


Jesus: It's really interesting.


Lizzy: It seems like a fascinating culture.


Jesus: Yeah, it is. Go over there, go to Italy, I don't know. Just visit
the world, probably.


Lizzy: Yeah. I can tell that you're someone who’d be interested in meeting
people from anywhere in the world. You're a human.


Jesus: Actually, I had a lot of friends that were from the rest of the
world. I had Arab friends, and Italians, and like even from Bulgaria, I had
an ex-girlfriend that was from Bulgaria. A Japanese ex-girlfriend. It was
really nice.


Lizzy: This is in California?


Jesus: Yeah, in California, just meeting people from different parts of the
world.


Lizzy: Here in Mexico, do you get to meet people from different parts of
the world?


Jesus: Not really. It's really hard to find people here from other places.
Mostly Mexicans. [Chuckles]. Last summer, I met a German out of nowhere,
right there by my house. It was really cool.


Lizzy: But not as much?


Jesus: Yeah, not as much.


Lizzy: Well, as we start finishing up, is there anything that you feel like
you want to share that you haven't gotten to talk about yet? Anything that
you want people to understand about you or your experience?


Jesus: That's a really good question. Well, for me, it was mostly I didn't
even know I was going over there, so everything was just interesting.
[Chuckles] Then once I got there, life was difficult for me being an
immigrant, especially because I did it illegally. If I had done it legally,
I think it would've been much easier, and I would've probably done a lot
better, had a lot of things to look forward to and stuff. But I guess, just
open your mind. Just to be open to people, not judge a book by its cover.
If you get to know them, you might know that they have other things that
are better. Do you want to better yourself, better the world, better
everybody? It's hard. It's hard when you don't have access to things. A lot
of people need support. A lot of people have good ideas, good intentions.
They just need that support.


Lizzy: Is there anything you think the US could be doing a better job at,
or the government in the US could be doing a better job providing that
support?


Jesus: The thing about government is, we're never going to be able to
control it. It's only 1% that controls that system. So, trying to change
the government is going to be the hardest thing to do. I'm guessing it's
more like changing yourselves, changing the people, because the people are
the majority of the people that live in the United States. So maybe just
changing off from that racism and that stereotypes and all that, and going
a different way, taking a different look at life where we're just humans.


Lizzy: So, try to change people's attitudes?


Jesus: Yeah. We should all just have a chance to do something. Maybe that
will make the best out of everybody.


Lizzy: I love that. I think, yeah, I agree with you that what's more
important than anything else is we all try to understand each other, and
see beneath the surface.


Jesus: Yeah, because I mean, what I noticed in the States was you don't
even know your neighbor at times. You don't even know the people that live
two houses down. So how are you supposed to open up to somebody when you
don't even know the person that lives next to you? Here, people know each
other, so that forms a sense of community, I guess. You know your neighbors
and everything. But over there, everybody is just in their own world.
Everybody's stuck in their own thing, looking out for their own lives. You
have to work for yourself. You've got to take care of yourself, and
everything's more independent. But if you took a chance to get to know your
neighbor and your other neighbor, they might be able to help you on things
you might need help on. I think that's where you should start, just by
getting to know your neighbor, getting to know the whole block and getting
know the whole street, and then everybody just knows everybody, and it
makes it safer.


Lizzy: Do you think that's something that we in the US could learn from
Mexico, getting to know your neighbors?


Jesus: Yeah. Here, too, it has its own difficulties, because you might know
your neighbor, but even though you're still kind of secluded. It might just
be a “Hi,” and you know their name, but that's it. You don't really take a
chance to talk to them sometimes. That's what the whole world needs, that's
how you start getting that unification of the people. Start getting to know
everybody. But it's hard, because there's billions and billions of people
that live here, so you might never know everybody. But at least if you know
seven people, seven people know another seven people. There's a study about
the seven people that you know, and I think that's a really good study, and
that's something that should be applied. Getting to know everybody you can.


Jesus: The government, that's why it secludes you. It starts from there.
The government secludes itself, from all the people. Nobody knows what
everybody wants. There might be people that want evil and then you don't
even know if it's right next door to you, or good. People that could be
presidents and they live next to you, they have good ideas, good morale,
stuff like that.


Lizzy: So, we need to start with each one of us individually making an
effort to get to know the people around us?


Jesus: Yeah, just learning. Learning everything you can from everybody
because you never know when an idea might come out of that, something good,
something positive.


Lizzy: Yeah. Even if they speak a different language?


Jesus: Yeah. Even if they're on the whole other side of the world.
[Chuckles]. This could happen. It's just hard. It's hard changing people.
When I was studying sociology here—I went to university, but I didn't
really like it, because they weren't going to pay me that much. Honestly, I
was looking into the pay. But I did learn a few things about how the world
works. It all starts from a house, how your parents teach you, and then how
the outside teaches you, and everything gets mixed together. So, I think
that's another thing. You've got to change the education system, because
right now, the education system is just teaching you to be a worker.


Lizzy: In the US or in Mexico?


Jesus: Anywhere in the world. Every single education system. I think the
Netherlands have something that's actually good. But every single system
teaches you just to be obedient, to be the best one, and then to stay there
for eight hours to take all that information in and then just leave,
whatever. But it doesn't really teach how you have to be yourself, and how
to be creative, and how to take the best out of yourself. It's just
teaching you how to be compliant and stuff. I think that needs to change.
You've got to get the best out of people, the creative side, because that's
where all the good things happen.


Lizzy: Yeah, I like that. That is where the good things happen.


Jesus: That's where everything we see was created, from people's
creativity. Somebody thought, oh, we should make a chair. Then it's like,
there's a chair. Somebody said we should make lamps, whatever, a light.
Benjamin Franklin, “How could I conduct that electricity into a light
bulb?” He did it, just from thinking about it and being creative. Everybody
was just being creative when they thought of things.


Lizzy: Yeah, that's so true. What do you like to use your creative side
for?


Jesus: Well, I like art. I like a lot of art. I like painting and creating
things. I wanted to be an engineer because I think it would be really good,
good help to society, make things a lot easier and better, more creative.
The transportation system here sucks. It's good, because you can get it
anywhere at any time, but it's contaminating the whole city. So, I gotta
make some other things change. I think I would be able to help in that kind
of sense, if I was to know all the engineering part of it.


Lizzy: So why did you decide against going down that path?


Jesus: School. Usually school's what brings me down because I know how it
is. They're just going to teach me what they want me to know, not what I
want to know.


Lizzy: Yeah.


Jesus: [Chuckles]. If the school taught me, if I told them, "Teach me this,
teach me all this," and the way I want to learn it, it'd be hands-on. I
don't want to be reading books and books and books on theories and stuff, I
want to just do it because that's where you learn the most, when you feel
it, when you do things. When you go ahead and touch it, you get the sense
of it. That's where you learn.


Lizzy: Yeah.


Jesus: Instead of just learning from books and getting bored and having
class and study plans and all this. That just makes your mind tired. That
takes away the creativity. Being right there and thinking about things and
opening up your creative side, you'll be like, "Oh, how about if we do
this? Make transportation with sunlight," sun powered, electric, whatever.
Electricity too could have been free for a long time, but the Tesla things
... Free current. It could be free, but it's just a system that we live in
where they want to make money off of you. Even in schools, they just want
to make money off of you, not even to learn anymore. That's what sucks.
That's what brings me down. I'm like, “Fuck. Take five years of this school
just to get a diploma paper that says that I know things, when I could know
things without having that paper.”


Lizzy: That's what makes you not want to go to school anymore?


Jesus: Yeah. It's just tiring. I don't think it's going to take the best
out of me. I want something or someone that could help me take the best out
of myself, take the creative side, take all this, take all that.


Lizzy: I think that there is still a lot of good that you can do with your
creative side even if you don't have that degree.


Jesus: Yeah. You know how home studies work, where your parents teach you
at home? That's what I'm trying to get more involved with, teaching myself,
because I can do it. I could teach my own damn self things. I could pick up
a book and read it and just learn. Why do I have to go to school, why do I
have to do all this?


Lizzy: Yeah. What would you want to teach yourself at home?


Jesus: Oh, what I am teaching myself is different languages.


Lizzy: What languages?


Jesus: A little bit of French and Italian and Japanese, but just starting
off.


Lizzy: That's so cool.


Jesus: I learned some over there in the States too, because in high school,
I took French.


Lizzy: Yeah. Sometimes you know yourself, you know how your mind works, and
sometimes you can be a better teacher to yourself than someone else could
be.


Jesus: Yeah, exactly. It also helps having other people, because there's
people that already have that knowledge, and they could make it easier for
you to learn it. So that's why it would be good to have somebody like a
teacher that could help you get the best out of you, and learn, and teach
you and stuff. Learning from yourself is more like taking the time to know
yourself and how to teach yourself, which is really hard too, because being
your own teacher is one of the hardest things. [Chuckles]. But it's not
difficult, you could do it. I could do it. It's just seeking knowledge,
philosophy.


Lizzy: Do you like philosophy?


Jesus: Yeah. It's one of the best subjects.


Lizzy: What kind of philosophy do you like to read about or learn about?


Jesus: All kinds. Just wisdom. Philosophy is the love of wisdom. That's
what it actually means. [Laughs].


Lizzy: Yeah, literally.


Jesus: So, it's just that. Just learning from anything and everything.
Asking the big question, “Why? Why does that work how it works? Why do they
do the things they do? Why do I want to learn things?” Just because I love
knowledge. It's nice knowing things. [Laughs].


Lizzy: And it's something you can do for your whole life.


Jesus: Exactly. You can always be a teacher and a student your whole life.
That's one of the big things about philosophy. You're never going to know
enough to say that you know everything. There's always something else that
you don't know. It's just that search that intrigues me. I just want to
keep knowing things and how everything works, what I can do. Learn what I'm
capable of. That's really nice. That's something really captivating, to be
learning.


Lizzy: Yeah, I agree. I think that is beautiful. I love that.


Jesus: Learning everything. Everything you can while you can.


Lizzy: While you can, yeah. While we're here.


Jesus: Exactly. Even more, teaching what you learn. I think that's what
we're here for, and that's the main purpose of humans, just to learn and to
teach.


Lizzy: To get that knowledge and pass it on to others.


Jesus: Exactly. They could use it differently. Your knowledge could be used
for something else.


Lizzy: Yeah.


Jesus: You could make a chain of knowledge, just everybody knowing things,
and they express it differently because of their ideals and their way of
being. They could make it something else, something more beautiful than
what it already is.


Lizzy: Yeah, and then it can evolve.


Jesus: Exactly.


Lizzy: And change.


Jesus: Evolve, that's evolution. We’re part of it, we're on it right now.
Everybody's evolving.


Lizzy: You really have a philosopher's mindset. [Jesus chuckles]. I like
it.


Jesus: Yeah, I always liked knowledge. I think that's why I always
separated myself from gangs and stuff like that because their knowledge was
just singular. The streets, do this, do that. People giving you orders
without a point. Like, “Why do you do that?” That's what I would always ask
myself on everything. Everything that was presented to me, I would always
ask the question, “Why? Why are you doing it?” If I didn't like the answer,
I don't have to do it. [Laughs]. I don't like that. So, I think that's it,
just finding the answers to what you want to know and passing them on, on
your knowledge.


Lizzy: Yeah, beautiful. [Jesus chuckles] The philosophy of Jesus.


Jesus: Yeah.


Lizzy: Any last things that you want to say?


Jesus: Oh, there's plenty of things that I would like to say, but I don't
know, I think it's taking too much of your time. I don't know.


Lizzy: No, it's okay.


Jesus: Yeah? There is a lot of things wrong and we need change, drastic
change. Needs a lot of help, a lot of people. We're going to a kind of
world where it's really going to shit [Chuckles] because of that, because
of the separation of the world and knowledge. Nobody wants you to know what
they know. It's my knowledge. Everybody's too greedy. Greed and all that is
causing a lot of harm. That needs to change. People's mindsets need to
change. They've got to know how the government works. There's a law in the
States where you can stand up to your government. It's the Second
Amendment. The whole town, the whole state, they could go against what the
government is saying and take it down if it’s too much tyranny. But nobody
does it, because nobody knows what their laws are. They don't know what
they can do as a town, as a people, as a whole. So, just that, increment
knowledge, know about things that you can do to make a change. Right now,
with Trump, a lot of people don't like him. They need to change him,
[Chuckles] because I don't think his policies and all that is too good.


Lizzy: No.


Jesus: He didn't even study to be a president. Money. Money talked with
him, made him president or whatever. That's the kinds of things they need
to change. How's the people going to change if the leader isn't somebody
that's capable of change? Or anything? He's just a one-minded, one-sided
mind.


Lizzy: Yeah. It's so true.


Jesus: If you want the people to change, if the people follow the
government, the government needs to change. Right here, too. Right here,
the government's corrupt too. Everybody's corrupt. They see money, they
just want that. They don't want the good for their people anymore, just the
good for themselves.


Lizzy: How do we change that?


Jesus: Changing a government, the thing that has been established for over
decades, is like changing religion. [Laughs]. It's one of the hardest
things to do. In religion, all the religions teach the same thing. Love one
another, peace. So why can't all of them be just one religion? But, no.
It's just separation. It's just changing separation, having to unify people
when everybody's already separated, they've been like that for decades,
takes a lot of people. I think the solution to that would be just unifying
the country, and making that one goal, one human goal. The one goal that
every human could have, and everybody could have access to food and shelter
and stuff, but based on wanting the people to grow, want their knowledge to
grow, because more people put their minds on one thing. It's easier for it
to be done, it's proven. You get five people to flip a car over, they'll do
it. If one person tries, they're never going to do it. So just changing
everybody's mindsets and having the opportunity for everybody to live
correctly, I think that would make a better world. It would help everybody
use their minds for other things than just work. They could use it for
their creative sides where they could start creating things that could help
better mankind as a whole. Like free energy. Water is infinite—not really,
because we're killing it, you know? [Laughs].


Lizzy: Yeah.


Jesus: And food, food could be infinite too. You go to a supermarket, you
know how many apples there are? Nobody's going to buy all those apples.
They're going to go bad within the week, so why can't you just get them
out, or why can't people just have their own little gardens where they
could grow their things? But everybody's just too lazy or just too busy
doing other things, like working, finishing, following the system. That's
what needs to change. Change the system.


Lizzy: Change the system.


Jesus: And you change the world. It's by unifying everybody. I think
everybody would be happy and everybody would be good.